The beginning of time and preexistence of the
soulEstablishing the Rules AND IS NOT POINT OF ARGUMENTBefore even going down
the road to “proving” particular things to be “true,” we have to agree on the
rules for taking such a venture. If your vocabulary does not match mine in
precise meaning so that the semantic scope of meaning does not vary or leave
open the possibility of other meanings, then we can say we have arrived at an
agreement. By this I mean when I say “time,” I mean time in the sense this
universe experiences—objectively experienced regardless of what we think it
is—which follows inescapably the laws of math and reason. I do not mean
hypothetical concepts but objective truths about time and the laws of
nature.
All matter and physical beings are affected
objectively by time and experience time the same. I am not saying that if
we were under different circumstances that it would be the same experience, such
as someone traveling at the speed of light will not experience time the same as
someone who is not, but two people moving at the speed of light will experience
time the same as each other just as two stationary people (if there really is
such a thing) experience time the same as each other. Given identical
circumstances, each person objectively experiences the laws of nature the same
way. There are no scapegoats, backdoors or loopholes which allow for
contradictory views so as to enable us to hold errant dogmas about the origin of
the universe. We won’t have our cake and eat it too.
I can only agree to a point on this, we must for sure establish of course the basis of our argument. However, we can not assume only our worldly, physical nature as a basis of our debate, because you yourself disregard this as it pertains to God. When you say we (man) could not have existed without beginning, your argument is that we would never have come to this point in time. Well, according to that argument God could not exist, especially Jesus, because he was placed on this very earth, within a certain time. You then argue that time does not pertain to God, he exists out of Time. I DO NOT SPECIFICALLY AGREE to this principle but I will agree for now as to establish a baseline to our discussion. In the same manner that God and Christ can exist eternally out side of physical time, so also did we and will we, exist eternally outside our current understanding of time. This is the bases of the argument of the eternal nature of man and matter. Before things where created physically, they existed spiritually. And that spiritual existence is one that is eternal in nature. - 2 corinthians 4:18 - the things which are seen are temporal, but the things which are not seen are eternal.
In accordance with matching vocabulary I will submit the following definitions by which these arguments must be based. I will refer to PHYSICAL MATTER as the matter in which we can see and measure in our physical existence, by which the laws of the universe as we know it are governed. Where as SPIRITUAL MATTER are things which are unseen, pertaining to God and things eternal. They are the laws that pertained to God and existence before the creation of our universe. They to are things that do exist, and therefore must be some type of matter, but perhaps we do not yet fully understand their true nature, properties and makeup. However, they also abide by certain laws, just as our physical universe does. However, we may not have discovered these laws and principles because this Spiritual Matter and existence can not yet be seen, measured or detected by our science. BUT perhaps by learning these laws of eternal Spiritual Matter, we may learn how our Physical Matter came to be. For it is my contention that from this eternal matter and laws, sprang forth by the power of God our physical being and the creation of our physical universe.
Therefore, I am NOT saying that our physical universe or bodies did not have a beginning. In fact, I believe they did! They began when God created them from Spiritual Matter. The Physical universe we understand today came into existence. This was the beginning spoken of in Genesis, before physical matter and time existed.
Also, by way of definition, we agree that we will exist eternally in the future, however, when I use the word eternal, I am referring to without beginning and without ending.
Therefore , did creation occur ex nihilo – out of nothing OR was it created out of something, “spiritual matter”, though organizing or bringing forth of this spiritual matter into physical matter
Either:
(a) There was no matter of any kind other than God himself that existed before the creation of this universe. And God created all that there is from nothing.
(b) Matter did exist before creation. This eternal, spiritual matter was organized and brought forth as our physical creation by the power of God and perhaps even the spiritual being of each of us existed prior to our earthly lives.
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